Original Message Follows: ------------------------- Reporting member: drohani 515Member being reported: drohani 515 User ID of member who received comment: zampaxxx 31 !44401! 052507 Item number: 350036150979 Reason for removal: I used a dispute resolution service Customer concern: buyer never paid for item for over a month. I opened a dispute wanting to cancel the transaction and file for fee credits. a week after i closed the dispute i was conatced by the buyer stating they would pay by cheque - which is NOT one of our accepted payment methods! i informed buyer it was too late as the auction had been cancelled and ebay had refunded my listing fees. buyer now leaves ME neagtive feedback! AND states in the feedback that I am the buyer!!! false and misleading feedback. i would like it removed, as i have done nothing wrong and dont deserve the negative.. as you can see by the rest of my feedback none of my other customers have had a problem! (KMM56132969V49653L0KM) From: aurswebhelp@xxxxxxxx Hello, Thank you for writing to eBay. This is Cheryl and I appreciate the chance to assist you with your concerns on negative feedback you received from buyer of your item number 350036150979. I know that the possibility of receiving negative feedback is one of the most frustrating aspects of an unpaid item dispute. However, because eBay has to rely on Sellers to determine whether or not a buyer has paid, we cannot block a Buyer from leaving feedback, or from retaliating if you leave them negative feedback. If you received Feedback from another member that you feel is unfair, you have a few options: - Use Mutual Feedback Withdrawal Mutual Feedback Withdrawal allows members to withdraw negative Feedback ratings after they resolve their disagreement. To learn more about Mutual Feedback Withdrawal, go to: http://pages.ebay.com.au/help/feedback/questions/mutual-withdrawal.html - Use a dispute resolution service such as SquareTrade To file a dispute with SquareTrade and learn about the other dispute resolution services that eBay provides, go to: http://pages.ebay.com.au/help/tp/problems-dispute-resolution.html - Report abusive Feedback If the comment violates eBay policy, we'll remove it. Unfortunately,we can't remove Feedback just because it's unfair or untrue, only if it violates eBay policy. To learn more about our Feedback Abuse, Withdrawal, and Removal Policy, go to:http://pages.ebay.com.au/help/policies/feedback-abuse-withdrawal.html I appreciate your patience and understanding in this matter. Regards, Cheryl B. eBay Customer Support Team Original Message Follows: Hello cheryl, thanks for your reply, however i feel that you have given an automated response, and not even looked into the matter at hand. you say you are relying on sellers to determine whether the buyer has paid or not, that is fair enough. but in this case, if you had bothered to read my email, or any of the disputes about this item, you will see that the buyer states CLEARLY that she has NOT PAID for the item. You will also see that SHE left me negative feedback FIRST. she did not retaliate to my negative. i wasnt even going to leave any feedback and leave it at that, but this buyer is spiteful and left undeserving and unfair feedback, after i had opened the unpaid item dispute. after she stated in the dispute that she had not paid, she also states that her personal cheque was returned to her. (we dont accept cheques, this is not stated as a payment method in our auctions) she also sent the cheque AFTER the dispute was closed, and after we were refunded our selling fees. To accept her payment then, even if she had not paid by cheque, would have made us violate ebays rule of circumventing fees, and selling outside of ebay. After the unpaid item dispute was closed and fees were refunded, the buyer opened an 'item not received' dispute of her own.. how can she claim 'item not received' when she states clearly in her dispute that she HAD NOT PAID FOR THE ITEM? She doesnt pay, i dont send the item. the transaction is CLOSED. yet she leaves me negative and opens a dispute? what a joke. so much for 'seller protection'... ...Ebay is introducing all these new rules to 'protect' sellers, what a joke that is... you cant even protect your sellers from unfair and untrue negative feedbacks when all the facts are there staring you in the face if only you bothered to read my email or actually look at the disputes relating to this item. Why should I accept this negative feedback from a bad buyer? Why isnt ebay doing more to protect honest sellers from spitefull buyers who dont pay? I urge you to actually look into the matter and 'protect' an honest and trustworthy seller with 700+ positive feedbacks. looking forward to your next pre-written and automated response...... cam baker, ROHANI Hello Rohani, Thank you for writing to eBay. My name is Linda and I am happy to assist you further with regard to the feedback you received on item #350036150979 from eBay member, zampaxxx. I'm sorry for the inconvenience that this situation has caused you. Please allow me the opportunity to check the best options that will help resolve the situation. Before I proceed, I am happy to inform you that eBay made changes on our feedback system where in buyers need to wait 3 days before leaving feedback for sellers. Also, negative and neutral Feedback left by members who are suspended or fail to respond to the Unpaid Item (UPI) Process will be removed. I have included important information for your reference below. I suggest that you continue using eBay until these changes or any modifications to these changes take effect. Moving on Rohani, I can certainly understand your concern when a member with all good intentions, and the track record to prove it, receive feedback that is unfair or inaccurate. If you trade long enough on eBay, you will likely come across someone who can't be pleased or who leaves you Feedback that you believe is unjust. In some cases we can remove feedback, but only if the comment meets the requirements for removal under our Feedback Abuse, Withdrawal and Removal policy. We've carefully reviewed the feedback you asked about and determined that it doesn't meet the removal requirement as outlined in the policy. I wish I could remove the comment for you, however, since eBay can edit only at the direction of our Legal Department, I am not at liberty to do so as these requirements are outlined in our Feedback Abuse, Withdrawal and Removal Policy. For further information on eBay's Feedback Removal Policy, go to: http://pages.ebay.com.au/help/policies/feedback-abuse-withdrawal.html I have reviewed your feedback profile and it's good that you have already left a feedback reply and explain your side of the story. Most eBay users tend to look for and recognise a general pattern of positive transactions that you and other sellers have. Also, there is other option for you to have the rating of this comment removed from your Feedback profile. eBay does have a feature called Mutual Feedback Withdrawal, which would allow you to remove the rating of this comment. Mutual Feedback Withdrawal allows members to withdraw negative Feedback ratings they've left for each other after they resolve their disagreement. To mutually withdraw feedback, you and your transaction partner must first work together to reach an agreement. Once you have agreed to withdraw feedback, both of you will need to complete the Mutual Feedback Withdrawal form. To learn more about Mutual Feedback Withdrawal, go to: http://pages.ebay.com.au/help/feedback/questions/mutual-withdrawal.html I would like to share to you that there are several enhancements being introduced on 12 May: 1. Beginning in February 2008, we enabled buyers and sellers to earn up to one Feedback point per week from the same trading partner. In May back to when the system was introduced in 1996. 2. Sellers will no longer be able to leave negative or neutral Feedback for buyers. 3. We_re improving the process that sellers use to report buyers for policy violations. 4. Negative and neutral Feedback left by members who are suspended or fail to respond to the Unpaid Item (UPI) Process will be removed. 5. The Positive Feedback percentage will be calculated on the past 12 months_ activity (and include neutral Feedback in the calculation). 6. Restrictions on when Feedback can be left: - Buyers must wait three days before leaving negative or neutral Feedback. - Buyers must wait seven days before leaving negative or neutral Feedback for active PowerSellers who have been registered for at least 12 months. - The period for you to leave Feedback has been reduced from 90 to 60 days after the transaction closes. 7. Mutual Feedback Withdrawal will no longer be available and SquareTrade can no longer be used to mediate Feedback disputes. 8. We have added messaging to buyers in the Feedback flow to remind them that international transactions usually take longer to complete. 9. We_ve added a checklist that all buyer_s must complete before leaving a negative or neutral Feedback to encourage communication to resolve any issues. 10. We_re making improvements to the Buyer Requirements options which you can access through My eBay and help to control who can bid on or buy your items. Rohani, we are very appreciative that you have taken the time to bring this to our attention and we thank you for your patience. Regards, Linda D. eBay Customer Support Team Dear Ebay robots, What a load of absolute rubbish. You direct me to remove the feedback by: "eBay does have a feature called Mutual Feedback Withdrawal, which would allow you to remove the rating of this comment." Then, further down you also tell me of the new 'improvements' to the feedback system and that now: "7. Mutual Feedback Withdrawal will no longer be available and SquareTrade can no longer be used to mediate Feedback disputes." You "suggest that i continue to use ebay until these changes come into effect" Are you fucking retarded? If i wait for those changes to come into effect, how the fuck can i use the mutual feedback withdrawal if it no longer exists? Once again, thanks for the automated response... its quite clear and obvious that again, you are just cutting and pasting snippets in and joining everything up to make a response. What a complete cock up you have made of this email trying to point me in the right direction. All you've done is confuse me more, and add to my suspicions that ebay is staffed by uncaring retarded fools who's only skills are copying and pasting bits and pieces into emails from the ebay help pages. Even if i did contact the buyer via the mutual feedback withdrawal, isn't it blatantly obvious that i would be wasting my time? You should be able to see in the disputes opened regarding this transaction that the buyer is unreasonable, arrogant, spiteful, and there is no way of reasoning with them? Do you really expect the buyer to 'mutually' agree to have the feedback withdrawn? I think not. Its plain to see these 'improvements' are useless and the whole feedback system is flawed, as is your 'personal' response to my query. What kind of busted arse backyard operation are you people running there? You say you cant remove the feedback because its not abuse? Clearly the buyer is ABUSING the feedback system by leaving false and misleading comments, which are totally unfounded and unwarranted. I have done nothing wrong in this case, so why should i be lumped with bad feedback? Surely you should be protecting your sellers a little bit better. After all we are the ones paying your wages. You can all go and get fucked, I will be winding up my auctions here and closing my account, I'm sick of these automated 'help' emails, sick of the bad service, sick of the stupid paypal only rules, sick of the 'hidden bidder' rules, i could go on and on, but no one is even going to read this anyway. Dont bother sending me another cut and paste / automated response that talks itself in circles and contradicts itself, as i am sick of reading this same old bullshit. get fucked, cam baker, ROHANI Hello Rohani, Thank you for writing to eBay. My name is Linda and I am happy to assist you further with regard to mutually withdrawing the feedback you received on item #350036150979. I really apologise for the confusion. I can certainly understand your concerns in this matter. Rohani, Mutual Feedback Withdrawal feature will be totaly removed from the system on May 19, 2008. Please try to do the process by following the steps below: 1. Go to: http://pages.ebay.com.au/help/policies/feedback-abuse-withdrawal.html 2. Click on Mutual Feedback Withdrawal form. You may be asked to sign in. 3. Enter the item number for the transaction in question then click Continue. 4. Select the feedback comment you wish to withdraw and click Continue. 5. If you wish, enter a message to your transaction partner. Once you are finished, click Continue. 6. Read the important information on the last page and click Send Request. I can understand how disappointed you must feel in this situation. Although we can work our hardest to help you resolve this matter, we realise this doesn't take away from feeling let down about the item you were looking forward to. Regards, Linda D. eBay Customer Support Team Hello again Linda, Thank you for confirming my suspicions that ebay staff dont actually read any emails or understand the concerns of their customers, let alone care. You are absolutely retarded and no good at your job. I suggest you quit immediately and book yourself back in to grade 1 primary school. Once again, you have provided me with a completely pathetic response to my query which AGAIN is confusing and overall, a gigantic cock up. You are useless. In your previous email you stated the that feedback withdrawal changes would come into effect 12th may. Now in this recent email, you are telling me the changes will come into effect on the 19th of may. You are useless. What happened? were you cutting and pasting from an outdated help page? In closing, you say you can understand how disappointed I must feel. Well you got one thing HALF right. I'm disappointed, but I dont think you would understand, you useless retarded fool. I think that now i'm more disappointed in ebay staff such as yourself Linda, who have absolutely NO IDEA whats going on and cant even paste together a simple email that makes sense. Your customer relation skills are fucking shithouse, I dont know how you ever got a job in this position in the first place. Maybe your skills would be better suited teaching downs syndrome kids because thats about the level of literacy and communication skill you seem to possess. You are "working your hardest" to resolve the matter? Gee, I never thought cutting and pasting sections of text to form an email/response was that hard. Dont break out in a sweat or anything. And now for the biggest fuck up of your email: "we realise this doesn't take away from feeling let down about the item you were looking forward to." You seem to be a little confused there Linda, but thats ok, I realise now that you are mentally handicapped and cant really 'realise' anything. Let me explain it to you though... I WASNT LOOKING FORWARD TO ANY FUCKING ITEM. I AM THE FUCKING SELLER IN THIS CASE! Thanks once again for confirming for me that you haven't read a word I have typed, and have no understanding of this matter at all. I implore you to quit your job right now as you are fucking useless at it. A blind retarded monkey with no hands high on crack with his feet jammed in his arse could do your job better than you do. Now that i think about it, maybe you should just kill yourself and put as all out of your misery. The world, and certainly Ebay would be a better place. I cant wait for your next cut and paste, jumbled up, nonsensical abortion of a response, and wonder if you can fuck things up any more than you already have. Linda you are useless and pathetic, Warm Regards, Cam Baker, ROHANI Subject: AU90061 Thank you for contacting eBay Trust and Safety. (KMM56167561V4384L0KM) Received: 14-May-08 From: eBay Customer Support Expires: 13-Jun-08 Hello Cam, Thanks for writing back about this issue. Upon thoroughly reviewing this issue I can certainly understand why you would be frustrated with this situation, and I empathise with your feelings. I sincerely want to help you out here. However, after careful review of the comment you received from zampaxxx, I have found that the comment has not met the requirements for removal. These requirements are outlined in our Feedback Abuse, Withdrawal and Removal Policy on the following Help page: http://pages.ebay.com.au/help/policies/feedback-abuse-withdrawal.html Regrettably, unless the feedback meets this policy, I cannot remove it. Please understand that we will not remove feedback because it seems unfair, or the member lied. eBay does not censor feedback or investigate it for accuracy, as doing so could make us legally responsible for the remarks that users post, even if those remarks are defamatory. However, the person who left the feedback still has full responsibility for it. Due to the fact that there are few instances where we are able to remove feedback, we try to encourage all members to use caution in posting feedback. Unfortunately, good members can sometimes still end up receiving feedback they feel is inappropriate or unfair. I wish that in cases such as yours we could bend the rules. However, this is one area where eBay must be rather stringent due to the legal liability posed to us should we vary from this policy. Please take the time to review the information found in our feedback removal policy at the Help Page listed above. Hopefully, after doing so, you can see how my hands are bound in this situation. As for Mutual Feedback Withdrawal, this feature has already been deactivated. I regret any confusion surrounding the date of this deactivation. *Note* In the future, please refrain from using obscene language when writing to us. You may not receive a response if your emails continue to contain profanity. I appreciate your concern in helping to keep eBay a safe and reputable forum in which to trade. Thanks again for writing it's been my pleasure to assist you. Kind regards, Tom C. Trust & Safety Team _______________________________ eBay - Australia's online marketplace Hi Tom, Looks like i actually got through to a human this time... Let me start off by replying to your little note at the end of your email asking me to refrain from using obscene language. I didn't realise robots actually had feelings and could be 'offended'. I would like to add a little note of my own here for you, and let you know that I would like YOU to refrain.... from treating your paying customers like second class citizens, and actually take the time to read, listen to and understand our problems and queries. I find it offensive when i get reply emails from your staff that are poorly put together and contain little relevance to the matters I am asking about. Having said that... Fuck You. If you are going to be offensive, then so am I. If I have to put up with the sheer insult dealt to me by these reply 'help' emails, then I'm sure you, and your robots can put up with a little foul language as I express my extreme dissatisfaction at your silly rules and regulations, your pathetic attempts to answer my questions and inability to form an answer that contains CORRECT INFORMATION and is actualy RELEVANT to my concern. Each response I get (including the one you have just sent me) begins with something like "after thoroughly reviewing", "carefully reviewing" or "I understand your concern" (...and my personal favorite,) "I am here to assist"..... its all a load of absolute BULLSHIT. I shouldn't really have to explain that to you, because to someone with half a brain, its fucking obvious that its all pre written nonsense that's just been pasted in. The changes to the feedback system that are now in place are seriously flawed, make no sense, and simply wont work. I'm sure I am not the only one who is going to complain about receiving an unfair negative feedback from a buyer. I guess I'm lucky that I was able to leave the buyer a negative before the new changes came into effect. From now on, the rest of Ebays selling community will not be so lucky. I'm sure that you will begin to be inundated with angry emails from sellers who are in a similar situation to myself, wanting a resolution, or some course of action to be taken against their unfair negatives. Whats going to make it worse is the pre-written automated responses your 'help' staff pump out in reply. They dont 'help' at all, they're just full of contradictions, confusion and misinformation. For example, I was told THREE different dates for the end of the 'mutual feedback withdrawal' ...and now you tell me that its already been deactivated! By the time I made sense of the numerous pathetic 'help' emails I received from your team of lobotomised and brain damaged incoherrent tools you call 'help' staff, its now too late for me to use it and I'm stuck with unfair negative feedback, all the while they just keep churning out fucked up and confusing information in their emails. Its just not good enough. Frankly, I think I would receive better service from a $5 hooker....if I'm going to be fucked over, at least I'd be getting value for money,unlike my Ebay exorbitant fees which ultimately pay for you to sit there and cut and past bullshit to me. You say you cant remove unfair feedback because a member lied. What would happen if I, or all the sellers started leaving unfair feedback and lies for members as protest? I'm sure you would start removing it then. I'm positive that Zampaxx wouldn't appreciate it if her feedback from me said: "Buyer has sex with donkeys, email her for the pics" or "Zampaxx paid for item with the 'hairy chequebook'" Granted, those examples would be removed on the grounds that they are offensive and obscene, but I'm sure you get my drift... With the current feedback 'laws' in place, a seller has no recourse to unfair or negative feedback received. We cant leave a return negative or neutral, we cant get it removed... we can't even get correct information regarding the rules and processes from your busted arse 'help' department! You tell me you cannot bend the rules. Fair enough. How about making some new ones that PROTECT sellers, the people that PAY YOUR WAGES and keep the auction site in existence. You are quick to change policy to line your pockets, but I don't see any changes in rules or processes that will protect or benefit sellers. Its about time you started looking after us, especially now these Paypal and feedback changes have taken place. I know its never going to happen. I know this will fall on deaf robotic ears. I know the ill informed cut & paste emails will continue to be pumped out. I know writing this is a waste of my valuable time and internet bandwidth which would be put to better use downloading porn. You, and the rest of the 'people' that replied to my query have been of no real help to me at all. I'm fed up with the insincere "ohh I want to help you so much but my hands are tied" and the "Its been my pleasure to assit you" ...I'm over it, and I dont give a fuck anymore, and I'll be leaving your fucked up fascist auction site as I will not be forced into accepting paypal only, I wont put up with unfair negative feedback with no recourse, and I'm sick of trying to talk to your uncaring and ill informed 'help' staff. I may as well be banging my head against a brick wall. I'm off to find some $5 hookers. *Note* Go fuck yourself. Sincerely Cam Baker, ROHANI